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Sam Peckinpah >> Everything Peckinpah and more >> Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
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Message started by Nate B. on 03/21/14 at 5:19pm

Title: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Nate B. on 03/21/14 at 5:19pm
It was suggested that I start a Pat Garrett poll and actually, I can't believe I didn't think to already...

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 03/21/14 at 7:22pm
Of course the Turner preview version is missing 3 scenes that MUST be in it: (1) The scene between Garrett and his wife, (2) The Ruthie Lee sequence, and (3) The short scene when Billy brings Maria a blanket and starts playing with the kids.

These need to be put back in the film.  Then we have the closest to the way Peckinpah left the film.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Gashade on 03/22/14 at 1:13am
This is hard actually, because if I can pick the one I prefer from the three, honestly, none of them is satisfactory. And I must say I was putting so much hope in the special edition, that since it came out, I haven't been able to watch the film in any version because of the disappointment.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by mike bishop on 03/22/14 at 5:46am
Thanks to all the recent postings, I watched the 2005 version again last week. My feelings haven't changed since then. Restore the Turner opening / ending and some of the now missing dialogue, fix the unneccessary sound problems and we'd have quite a good version.
But I have to watch the Turne version while my feelings are still warm enough, I didn't see it since 1995 I guess. Maybe I'll see it differently now..

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Novecento on 03/22/14 at 3:16pm
I can't believe anyone would vote for the 1973 theatrical release, but it's good to have it in there for completeness. I haven't seen it and don't really care to, but am quite sure I wouldn't be voting for it  ;D

With custom fan-edits being excluded, this is a no-brainer for me. The 1988 Turner Preview Version gets my vote hands down.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Stanton on 03/23/14 at 7:08am

mike bishop wrote on 03/22/14 at 5:46am:
Thanks to all the recent postings, I watched the 2005 version again last week. My feelings haven't changed since then. Restore the Turner opening / ending and some of the now missing dialogue, fix the unneccessary sound problems and we'd have quite a good version.


Yes, that's what I would like to see too. That would be the best version.

Actually, I think that, despite all the missing stuff, I prefer the theatrical cut to the Turner version. By stringing together all the scenes which end in a violent outburst the theatrical version developed its own quality. Despite so much missing it works in a strange way. I never had a doubt that PG&BtK is one of Peckinpah's best and most beautiful films. The torso lives and breathes, and was long before I first could watch the long version my favourite Peckinpah behind TWB, and one of the 4 best westerns ever.

The 2005 version retains most of the qualities of the 1973 version, and adds all of the complexities of the Turner version.
And thankfully skips the bunkhouse scene, contains the for me important Ruthie Lee scene, has the raft scene at the right place (where it works better), has the correct dialogue for the dying Paco and has the vocals of Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 03/28/14 at 1:21pm

Quote:
Actually, I think that, despite all the missing stuff, I prefer the theatrical cut to the Turner version. By stringing together all the scenes which end in a violent outburst the theatrical version developed its own quality.


Of course I don't agree with you on that.  And by 'its own quality', yes, I agree with that.  But it's a quality that is streamlined and artificially 'polished' that robs the film of its existential rambling quality.  And it also is merely a guess as to what Peckinpah would have done.  Too much meddling, too much 'rounding off the corners'.  As the following film showed ("Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia") this roughness was characteristic of Peckinpah at this stage.


Quote:
...thankfully skips the bunkhouse scene, contains the for me important Ruthie Lee scene, has the raft scene at the right place (where it works better), has the correct dialogue for the dying Paco and has the vocals of Knockin' on Heaven's Door.


If you include fixing the editing blunder of the wrong shot when Ollinger cocks his gun, I believe all of these things would improve the film, and agree with you here!   (Although, again, I need to repeat that the song was something we know Peckinpah didn't want in the scene -- even if you -- and I -- like the song..)

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Richard W on 03/31/14 at 3:01am

Robert Blenheim wrote on 03/21/14 at 7:22pm:
Of course the Turner preview version is missing 3 scenes that MUST be in it: (1) The scene between Garrett and his wife, (2) The Ruthie Lee sequence, and (3) The short scene when Billy brings Maria a blanket and starts playing with the kids.

These need to be put back in the film.  Then we have the closest to the way Peckinpah left the film.


The short scene in which Billy brings Maria a blanket and starts playing with the kids -- where precisely was it placed in the broadcast version?

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 03/31/14 at 11:34pm

Quote:
The short scene in which Billy brings Maria a blanket and starts playing with the kids -- where precisely was it placed in the broadcast version?


Just before the scene of the chickens jumping about.  (Peckinpah draws a parallel with the kids movements at the end of the scene and the 'dancing' chickens.)

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Richard W on 04/01/14 at 1:12am
But that would make it the first scene in the film.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Novecento on 04/01/14 at 6:22am

Robert Blenheim wrote on 03/31/14 at 11:34pm:

Quote:
The short scene in which Billy brings Maria a blanket and starts playing with the kids -- where precisely was it placed in the broadcast version?


Just before the scene of the chickens jumping about.  (Peckinpah draws a parallel with the kids movements at the end of the scene and the 'dancing' chickens.)


Wow - I had not realized that this was a carefully edited/transitioned  scene that visually ties into that of the chickens :o

Robert - any chance you could upload the short clip to YouTube?

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/01/14 at 8:01am

Quote:
But that would make it the first scene in the film.


No, no!  After the scene with the wife, and Garrett rides into town about 40 minutes into the film (estimate).  He pushes around a scummy guy who says something like "I don't pay no nevermind."   That scene begins with chickens jumping around which was a transition just after the scene with Billy romping with the kids.  I'll try to look it up later to be more specific, but I'm just going to an eye surgeon this morning.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/01/14 at 8:03am

Quote:
Robert - any chance you could upload the short clip to YouTube?


That's an idea.  But I don't know how to do that from a dvd I recorded.  Tell me how...!

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Richard W on 04/03/14 at 3:09am
... will somebody please tell Robert how to upload to utube from the DVD he recorded?

Novecento?

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Novecento on 04/04/14 at 8:23pm
Never done it myself. I'd imagine it is pretty easy though: copy the DVD to your computer; use some free editor (Windows Movie Maker, Real Player) to cut and save the scene you want; create a YouTube account and upload.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/04/14 at 9:14pm

Quote:
...copy the DVD to your computer; use some free editor (Windows Movie Maker, Real Player) to cut and save the scene you want; create a YouTube account and upload.


Well, I did isolate the scene with Windows Movie Maker and saved it to my desktop.  I don't know how to put it on YouTube, but I'll be researching it!

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/04/14 at 10:21pm
I managed to isolate the scene in Windows Movie Maker and was going to try to put it on YouTube (something I have never done!) but Movie Maker has some kind of strange glitch that cuts off the last ten seconds or so every time I save it as a file.

If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong, or can give me a "workaround" in this glitch, please let me know!

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/05/14 at 6:37pm

Quote:
...Movie Maker has some kind of strange glitch that cuts off the last ten seconds or so every time I save it as a file!


Actually the scene runs just over 1 minute.  The glitch in Movie Maker cuts it in half so that it lasts only 30 sec.  The timing of the shots in the program move to the end when only part of it has played, even though the whole scene is there.  Does anybody know what the heck is going on?

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Richard W on 04/05/14 at 7:26pm
Try extending your clip an additional 35 seconds, so that when MovieMaker rolls back, it won't cut out anything important.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/06/14 at 9:11am

Richard W wrote on 04/05/14 at 7:26pm:
Try extending your clip an additional 35 seconds, so that when MovieMaker rolls back, it won't cut out anything important.


How do I do that?  The clip is already isolated. 

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Richard W on 04/06/14 at 2:49pm
By doing it over again. Just start over. Sorry.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/08/14 at 5:38pm

Richard W wrote on 04/06/14 at 2:49pm:
By doing it over again. Just start over. Sorry.


I can't start over.  My copy is assembled in a computer from the individual pieces.

I'll try to think of something.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Novecento on 04/11/14 at 11:21pm
Will the free version of "Real Player" let you edit it?

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/12/14 at 8:14pm

Novecento wrote on 04/11/14 at 11:21pm:
Will the free version of "Real Player" let you edit it?


I've never used it.  I'll try it.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/13/14 at 1:38pm

Novecento wrote on 04/11/14 at 11:21pm:
Will the free version of "Real Player" let you edit it?


I tried the "Real Player" and it was a mess. Got no sound when I put the clip in, then tried numerous things to get it to work but I couldn't even figure out how.

Finally, in complete exasperation, I took my iphone and merely filmed if off of the monitor as I showed the scene from my own created DVD.

It worked -- but it's MUCH DUBBY-ER than the original now.  It looks lousy.

I put the iphone clip on YouTube and... voila!  You can check it out but the video quality stinks!

Go to YouTube and search for:
04132014 080 "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid" DELETED SCENE.

Sorry for the bad quality, but you can see the scene.  Actually it runs 1:03 so somehow the first few seconds are missing.  The aspect ratio is also off.

The scene goes right between when Alias throws the knife through a scumbag's throat and the close-up of the cockfight in the street when Garrett rides into town.


Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Stanton on 04/13/14 at 1:57pm
Great, thanks ...

linked:

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Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/13/14 at 4:41pm
I hope no one minds, but I have posted this as a new subject so people could easily access it and make comments.

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Novecento on 04/23/14 at 9:55pm
I doubt it will get any more votes than the 1973 Theatrical Release (i.e. zero), but for completeness it seems to me like a fourth version needs to be added:

1975 CBS Broadcast Version

Title: Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid version Poll
Post by Robert Blenheim on 04/25/14 at 9:46am

Novecento wrote on 04/23/14 at 9:55pm:
I doubt it will get any more votes than the 1973 Theatrical Release (i.e. zero), but for completeness it seems to me like a fourth version needs to be added:

1975 CBS Broadcast Version


No one would vote for this being drastically cut. 

But, thank goodness, this broadcast version has thankfully made available several scenes that had been removed from Peckinpah's cut that provide us the chance to restore them so we can have a better idea of what he intended!

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