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Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions (Read 22945 times)
JEFF1950
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #6 - 07/11/09 at 2:54pm
 
I like the Turner version best, but I'd like to cut out the bunkhouse scene with Dub Taylor, it's not good, it isn't up to the standard of peckinpah, and it's bad acting.
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Stanton
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #7 - 07/12/09 at 7:11am
 
The 2 biggest mistakes Seydor made was to restore the theatrical credits, instead of using the preview credits, and not to return to the 1909 framing shots, which are there to close the circle. And the whole film is in it's episodical structure about circles.

These are 2 ideas nobody else would have done besides Seydor.

His best ideas are the earlier presenting of the raft scene and the including of the Knocking on Heaven's door lyrics, both like it was done in the 73 cut.
All the other changes are debatable for me.

I also think that some of the violence wasn't cut in the way Peckinpah has done this before. But Seydor hasn't tried to change it. An example is the Billy and Alias shooting of Chisum's men after the turkey chase. Here several slo mo shots are presented as a whole, whereas Peckinpah had them mostly (always?) intercut with other shots.

I had seen for many years only the theatrical version, and it was always Peckinpah's second masterwork for me. Due to it's episodical structure the film wasn't as damaged as Major Dundee (still is) and the shorter versions of the Wild Bunch. It wasn't as complex as the longer versions, but PG&BtK already worked in this version. And you could see what it was about, you only had to look a bit closer.

When I first saw the Turner cut I was a bit disappointed as the film had, apart from the new opening scene, not improved as much as I had it expected. I still think the pacing of the Turner cut is not good, and that's why I prefer the Seydor version. Even if some beautiful moments are gone, the film leaves a much greater impact.

I would cut some of the violence different, I would use of course the preview credits and the preview ending, and I would maybe put some minor pieces back to the Seydor cut.
Then it would be perfect. Unfortunately this all will never happen.
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Stanton
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #8 - 07/12/09 at 7:20am
 
What do you guys think of the bunkhouse scene. It obviously is in breach with the rest of the film, as it was the only scene without Garrett or Billy.

But if this is so obvious, why was it written and shot in the first place?

Really only to be removed later?

Poe represents the darker side of Garrett, who is the real center of the film, the compromise, all that what Garret hates himself for, while Billy, in all his violent innocence, represents Garrett inner (and former) ideals.
But even with this scene Poe still remains a minor character, and the bunkhouse scene doesn't tell us anything we don't already know about him. The scene at the Chisum ranch is much more important.
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JEFF1950
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #9 - 07/12/09 at 4:34pm
 
The bunkhouse scene which features Dub Taylor & co. is poor by Peckinpah's standards and Don Levy is embarrassingly bad.
Peckinpah would shoot a sequence like this and the raft scene knowing one would have to go, the studio would order these removed because they did little to progress the story forward, Peckinpah would create hell to keep them both, then a compromise would happen where he'd agree to loose one scene, the bunkhouse scene, the one he intended to loose anyway thus keeping the scene he wanted in the first place. Sam would have got one over on the studio, he'd have loved that.
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JEFF1950
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #10 - 07/12/09 at 4:45pm
 
Paul is a friend of mine, and just because I prefer the Turner cut I don't think he'd hold it against me, but he had done some interesting work on the film, most importantly to me anyway is the place where the directors title appears, Paul has put it in where it should be, where the scene dictates it to be.
I have my reservations about Paul cutting Sam's cameo down, I love to see Sam on film, he would have made a hell of an actor especially in westerns where he would have been most comfortable.
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« Last Edit: 07/13/09 at 1:34pm by JEFF1950 »  
 
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Gashade
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Re: Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid versions
Reply #11 - 01/24/10 at 2:35pm
 
Just thought I'd post the discussion that is going on on that subjet on the Home Theater forum:
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